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	<title>Comments on: Microsoft Office Is Stupid And Google Docs Had To Follow</title>
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	<link>http://justtoological.com/just-too-logical/microsoft-office-is-stupid-and-google-docs-had-to-follow/</link>
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		<title>By: Chaalz</title>
		<link>http://justtoological.com/just-too-logical/microsoft-office-is-stupid-and-google-docs-had-to-follow/comment-page-1/#comment-77</link>
		<dc:creator>Chaalz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jun 2010 08:36:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justtoological.com/?p=219#comment-77</guid>
		<description>Can&#039;t believe its been over a year since I wrote that post. :)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Interesting to approach it from a user-knowledge point of view. No doubt there is lots one can do with software if they know all the small hidden features. But the learning curve is not worth the effort.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The point I&#039;m trying to make (admittedly rather poorly) is that there is (read - shouldn&#039;t be) no such thing as &quot;number bias&quot; and no such thing as &quot;only for display&quot; or limitations on font sizes.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;From a user point of view, being purely objective, I believe the requirements are simple:&lt;br&gt;1. You want a thing, lets call it a document, that holds your data.&lt;br&gt;2. This document can be printed (into one or more pages of info).&lt;br&gt;3. This document can be displayed (into one or more screen full of info).&lt;br&gt;4. Creating/Editing this document must be easy and intuitive.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I don&#039;t see any need for guessing the best structure as there is only 1 structure. Trust me I know as a developer myself that this is remarkably hard to do, let alone do well. But I also know that it is doable. With almost 2 decades of Office software development under their belt, I just can&#039;t give MS a free pass anymore as to why a better approach has not been tried.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Well I better stop here...its almost midnight and you got me excited again looking up old designs I have stored away for this.  Just can&#039;t seem to find the time! &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Thanks for the comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can&#39;t believe its been over a year since I wrote that post. <img src='http://justtoological.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Interesting to approach it from a user-knowledge point of view. No doubt there is lots one can do with software if they know all the small hidden features. But the learning curve is not worth the effort.</p>
<p>The point I&#39;m trying to make (admittedly rather poorly) is that there is (read &#8211; shouldn&#39;t be) no such thing as &#8220;number bias&#8221; and no such thing as &#8220;only for display&#8221; or limitations on font sizes.  </p>
<p>From a user point of view, being purely objective, I believe the requirements are simple:<br />1. You want a thing, lets call it a document, that holds your data.<br />2. This document can be printed (into one or more pages of info).<br />3. This document can be displayed (into one or more screen full of info).<br />4. Creating/Editing this document must be easy and intuitive.</p>
<p>I don&#39;t see any need for guessing the best structure as there is only 1 structure. Trust me I know as a developer myself that this is remarkably hard to do, let alone do well. But I also know that it is doable. With almost 2 decades of Office software development under their belt, I just can&#39;t give MS a free pass anymore as to why a better approach has not been tried.</p>
<p>Well I better stop here&#8230;its almost midnight and you got me excited again looking up old designs I have stored away for this.  Just can&#39;t seem to find the time! </p>
<p>Thanks for the comment.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher Hire</title>
		<link>http://justtoological.com/just-too-logical/microsoft-office-is-stupid-and-google-docs-had-to-follow/comment-page-1/#comment-76</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Hire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jun 2010 05:19:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justtoological.com/?p=219#comment-76</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s called OLE / embedding / technical skills. It is possible to do all you describe - but easier if you learnt how to use Office from 95 onwards, and have strong technical skills honed from frustration. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;If a document has a number bias, choose Excel/ssheets. If it has a text bias choose a word document (word). Slides are only for display, with entirely different font sizes (16pt+) to text in a report (12pt). But one file, with the application guessing what I want. jeez. No thanks. There is the law of unintended consequences, because the &#039;application&#039; must guess the best structure.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Arguably, you could say, that it would be better not to have to have these skills... So, I agree though there is a market for an easier way to do this. And a flow between - like an iphone or isomething sort of breeziness in the interface layer. And google docs is underwhelming.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;If it&#039;s a text document with every insert treated as an XML specified object, with formats separated from data... perhaps for every day use... Hey... that&#039;s a good idea. We shall see it soon. Perhaps with proper open source lightweight code...!&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Thanks for the post, Charles&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Keep innovating,&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Christopher Hire&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.2thinknow.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.2thinknow.com&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#39;s called OLE / embedding / technical skills. It is possible to do all you describe &#8211; but easier if you learnt how to use Office from 95 onwards, and have strong technical skills honed from frustration. </p>
<p>If a document has a number bias, choose Excel/ssheets. If it has a text bias choose a word document (word). Slides are only for display, with entirely different font sizes (16pt+) to text in a report (12pt). But one file, with the application guessing what I want. jeez. No thanks. There is the law of unintended consequences, because the &#39;application&#39; must guess the best structure.</p>
<p>Arguably, you could say, that it would be better not to have to have these skills&#8230; So, I agree though there is a market for an easier way to do this. And a flow between &#8211; like an iphone or isomething sort of breeziness in the interface layer. And google docs is underwhelming.  </p>
<p>If it&#39;s a text document with every insert treated as an XML specified object, with formats separated from data&#8230; perhaps for every day use&#8230; Hey&#8230; that&#39;s a good idea. We shall see it soon. Perhaps with proper open source lightweight code&#8230;!</p>
<p>Thanks for the post, Charles</p>
<p>Keep innovating,</p>
<p>Christopher Hire<br /><a href="http://www.2thinknow.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.2thinknow.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jenny Blake</title>
		<link>http://justtoological.com/just-too-logical/microsoft-office-is-stupid-and-google-docs-had-to-follow/comment-page-1/#comment-15</link>
		<dc:creator>Jenny Blake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 23:49:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justtoological.com/?p=219#comment-15</guid>
		<description>I agree - at the very least give me Google Docs with tab capabilities (like spreadsheets). Even better? Hybrid tabs, where when you click through the tabs could be a doc, a spreadsheet or a presentation. I guess in theory Google sites allows for more versatility, but it&#039;s too clunky without inline editing on embedded docs. 

I work at Google...you would think I&#039;d be able to do something about this...LOL.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree &#8211; at the very least give me Google Docs with tab capabilities (like spreadsheets). Even better? Hybrid tabs, where when you click through the tabs could be a doc, a spreadsheet or a presentation. I guess in theory Google sites allows for more versatility, but it&#8217;s too clunky without inline editing on embedded docs. </p>
<p>I work at Google&#8230;you would think I&#8217;d be able to do something about this&#8230;LOL.</p>
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		<title>By: jennyblake</title>
		<link>http://justtoological.com/just-too-logical/microsoft-office-is-stupid-and-google-docs-had-to-follow/comment-page-1/#comment-91</link>
		<dc:creator>jennyblake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 23:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justtoological.com/?p=219#comment-91</guid>
		<description>I agree - at the very least give me Google Docs with tab capabilities (like spreadsheets). Even better? Hybrid tabs, where when you click through the tabs could be a doc, a spreadsheet or a presentation. I guess in theory Google sites allows for more versatility, but it&#039;s too clunky without inline editing on embedded docs. 

I work at Google...you would think I&#039;d be able to do something about this...LOL.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree &#8211; at the very least give me Google Docs with tab capabilities (like spreadsheets). Even better? Hybrid tabs, where when you click through the tabs could be a doc, a spreadsheet or a presentation. I guess in theory Google sites allows for more versatility, but it&#8217;s too clunky without inline editing on embedded docs. </p>
<p>I work at Google&#8230;you would think I&#8217;d be able to do something about this&#8230;LOL.</p>
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		<title>By: Raju Vegesna</title>
		<link>http://justtoological.com/just-too-logical/microsoft-office-is-stupid-and-google-docs-had-to-follow/comment-page-1/#comment-13</link>
		<dc:creator>Raju Vegesna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 07:10:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justtoological.com/?p=219#comment-13</guid>
		<description>@Chaalz

Note that a concept like a word processor doesn&#039;t disappear over night. People have been using these for decades and it takes a gradual migration. There have been couple of companies who did almost exactly what you said, but they are dead now as it is too much change from the way people are used to doing things....and people don&#039;t like change. So these single product companies failed.
 
We offer several options and Notebook is offered to people who prefer the new approach of bringing all things together. That said, the reality is, not many people are going to change to the new model.

Twitter @Zoho</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Chaalz</p>
<p>Note that a concept like a word processor doesn&#8217;t disappear over night. People have been using these for decades and it takes a gradual migration. There have been couple of companies who did almost exactly what you said, but they are dead now as it is too much change from the way people are used to doing things&#8230;.and people don&#8217;t like change. So these single product companies failed.</p>
<p>We offer several options and Notebook is offered to people who prefer the new approach of bringing all things together. That said, the reality is, not many people are going to change to the new model.</p>
<p>Twitter @Zoho</p>
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		<title>By: Raju Vegesna</title>
		<link>http://justtoological.com/just-too-logical/microsoft-office-is-stupid-and-google-docs-had-to-follow/comment-page-1/#comment-90</link>
		<dc:creator>Raju Vegesna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 07:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justtoological.com/?p=219#comment-90</guid>
		<description>@Chaalz

Note that a concept like a word processor doesn&#039;t disappear over night. People have been using these for decades and it takes a gradual migration. There have been couple of companies who did almost exactly what you said, but they are dead now as it is too much change from the way people are used to doing things....and people don&#039;t like change. So these single product companies failed.
 
We offer several options and Notebook is offered to people who prefer the new approach of bringing all things together. That said, the reality is, not many people are going to change to the new model.

Twitter @Zoho</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Chaalz</p>
<p>Note that a concept like a word processor doesn&#8217;t disappear over night. People have been using these for decades and it takes a gradual migration. There have been couple of companies who did almost exactly what you said, but they are dead now as it is too much change from the way people are used to doing things&#8230;.and people don&#8217;t like change. So these single product companies failed.</p>
<p>We offer several options and Notebook is offered to people who prefer the new approach of bringing all things together. That said, the reality is, not many people are going to change to the new model.</p>
<p>Twitter @Zoho</p>
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		<title>By: Chaalz</title>
		<link>http://justtoological.com/just-too-logical/microsoft-office-is-stupid-and-google-docs-had-to-follow/comment-page-1/#comment-12</link>
		<dc:creator>Chaalz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 13:50:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justtoological.com/?p=219#comment-12</guid>
		<description>I like the concept you describe, but when I checked out the site I still saw Zoho having separate apps for Word Processor, Spreadsheets and Presentation Tool. If Notebook could do all this then why have all those other apps.  Is Notebook just an advanced webpage creator? I can&#039;t tell. I&#039;ve yet to see a company just have a single app simply called Online Document (or whatever).

In any case Zoho&#039;s Notebook is a step in the right direction.  I will check it out in more detail later on. Thx for the post.

Twitter @chaalz</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the concept you describe, but when I checked out the site I still saw Zoho having separate apps for Word Processor, Spreadsheets and Presentation Tool. If Notebook could do all this then why have all those other apps.  Is Notebook just an advanced webpage creator? I can&#8217;t tell. I&#8217;ve yet to see a company just have a single app simply called Online Document (or whatever).</p>
<p>In any case Zoho&#8217;s Notebook is a step in the right direction.  I will check it out in more detail later on. Thx for the post.</p>
<p>Twitter @chaalz</p>
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		<title>By: Chaalz</title>
		<link>http://justtoological.com/just-too-logical/microsoft-office-is-stupid-and-google-docs-had-to-follow/comment-page-1/#comment-89</link>
		<dc:creator>Chaalz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 13:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justtoological.com/?p=219#comment-89</guid>
		<description>I like the concept you describe, but when I checked out the site I still saw Zoho having separate apps for Word Processor, Spreadsheets and Presentation Tool. If Notebook could do all this then why have all those other apps.  Is Notebook just an advanced webpage creator? I can&#039;t tell. I&#039;ve yet to see a company just have a single app simply called Online Document (or whatever).

In any case Zoho&#039;s Notebook is a step in the right direction.  I will check it out in more detail later on. Thx for the post.

Twitter @chaalz</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the concept you describe, but when I checked out the site I still saw Zoho having separate apps for Word Processor, Spreadsheets and Presentation Tool. If Notebook could do all this then why have all those other apps.  Is Notebook just an advanced webpage creator? I can&#8217;t tell. I&#8217;ve yet to see a company just have a single app simply called Online Document (or whatever).</p>
<p>In any case Zoho&#8217;s Notebook is a step in the right direction.  I will check it out in more detail later on. Thx for the post.</p>
<p>Twitter @chaalz</p>
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		<title>By: Raju Vegesna</title>
		<link>http://justtoological.com/just-too-logical/microsoft-office-is-stupid-and-google-docs-had-to-follow/comment-page-1/#comment-11</link>
		<dc:creator>Raju Vegesna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 06:38:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justtoological.com/?p=219#comment-11</guid>
		<description>Did you try Zoho Notebook (notebook.zoho.com). It users a similar concept you mentioned where one page can be a word processor, another a spreadsheet and has the ability to embed audio/video/presentations/web pages etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did you try Zoho Notebook (notebook.zoho.com). It users a similar concept you mentioned where one page can be a word processor, another a spreadsheet and has the ability to embed audio/video/presentations/web pages etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Raju Vegesna</title>
		<link>http://justtoological.com/just-too-logical/microsoft-office-is-stupid-and-google-docs-had-to-follow/comment-page-1/#comment-88</link>
		<dc:creator>Raju Vegesna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 06:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://justtoological.com/?p=219#comment-88</guid>
		<description>Did you try Zoho Notebook (notebook.zoho.com). It users a similar concept you mentioned where one page can be a word processor, another a spreadsheet and has the ability to embed audio/video/presentations/web pages etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did you try Zoho Notebook (notebook.zoho.com). It users a similar concept you mentioned where one page can be a word processor, another a spreadsheet and has the ability to embed audio/video/presentations/web pages etc.</p>
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